home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > maintenance & nonperformance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2020, 03:51 PM   #1
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default No start but kicks over when you turn off the key

Quick history, 1989 244 purchased about 8 months ago scheduled for a fresh engine and +T this summer. Absolutely no starting problems to date. Have been storing it at a buddy's and going over every couple weeks to fire it up and let it run for awhile. Was really proud of how quick it would start after sitting.
Went out yesterday and it cranked for a really long time. Finally started after a few attempts. Ran a bit rough but smoothed out after about 45 seconds or so. Unusual for this car.
Was inside talking while the car idled. After 15 minutes we walked out to the car, it suddenly died. Would not restart. My friend tried a little ether and it started up and seemed to idle OK.
Went out today and it cranked but no start. Tried starting fluid again, no start. But, when you shut off the key, it would kick over a few times, I think backwards, as there was a cloud of white vapor that would come out of the open air intake.
Both fuel pumps can be heard working. Plugs appear to have fuel (starting fluid?) on them. About I/2 tank of gas with Stabil added. My friend attached a plug test light on one of the plugs and it seemed that the light would not come on when the engine cranked, only would flash when you turned the key off.
At a loss to explain how a car that so far has been trouble free can go downhill like this in two weeks without having been touched.
Need the TB brain trust to help me out. Thanks
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 04:03 PM   #2
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default

Quick edit, I've checked all the info on MRAK's current post on his starting problems but I'm not sure if much of the advice would apply to my case as his was a non runner from the start while mine had been running, and driving, just fine.
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 04:39 PM   #3
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

My guess is you have a bad ignition switch. You’re not getting ignition system working when you are cranking and as soon as you let off to the run position the ignition system is turned back on. I’ve seen this happen many times. If you want to test my theory use a screwdriver to trigger the starter with the key in the run position. Just go from the large battery cable terminal down to the terminal that the blue and yellow wire is attached to. That will trigger the starter. Make sure the car is in neutral or park with the brake set. It could run right over you. You are bypassing the neutral safety switch when you do this.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 04:43 PM   #4
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

My guess is crank sensor.

Got a test lamp?
__________________
No Start Thread
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 05:36 PM   #5
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

^^

If it isn’t the switch, which costs nothing to test, the next thing I would suspect is the crank sensor. I have also seen the same behavior when they fail.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2020, 05:51 PM   #6
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default

Thanks gents. Really too cold and windy today to do much in the way of diagnostics on the car. Tomorrow should be warmer. I'll try what you recommend. Have been doing a lot of searching and was wondering if it could be the ignition module? Will go one step at a time and follow your directions first.
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 01:25 PM   #7
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default

Quick update. Went out today, turned the key on to the run position. Then using the under hood "starter test wire" energized the starter. No luck. Starter ran great, would not fire up until I stopped the starter then it would kick or chug backwards twice. Same results after trying it a couple times. Rats!
Next I'll be on to testing the CPS as ZVOLV suggested. Last night I was looking through the receipts that came with the car and found that the CPS had been replaced just 17k (3yr) ago.
Think I'll also get an ignition/spark plug test light like my buddy used to see if or when the plugs are firing.
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 04:59 PM   #8
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Do a visual test on the crank sensor and also try a "wiggle test" on it while cranking see if anything changes.

Use a test lamp between coil negative and ground to "check for spark".

BACKPROBE the fuel injectors (use needle probes) a lamp should blink.


++++++++No spark, but injector pulse- the power stage is suspect.

++++++No spark and no injector pulse- suspect the crank sensor or power to the computers.
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 01:51 PM   #9
benflynn
bigpimpin740t@yahoo.com
 
benflynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Birmingham Al
Default

i have seen this be an ign switch
__________________
85 744 Turbo F+T big valved531, stg5 cam, msns, m47, sways, bills, 53mm t3/t4 9lb flywheel, dual 044s, 80lbs, npr og
benflynn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 03:01 PM   #10
bobxyz
Board Member
 
bobxyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Boulder CO
Default

Try checking the voltage on the coil with key on (check between battery - post and the coil blue wire). Should have battery voltage. You can also check the same circuit on fuses 11,12,13. If you don't have voltage, try wiggling the key. If you get voltage, don't move the key but try starting with the engine compartment starter wire or diagnostic starter terminal.
bobxyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 04:30 PM   #11
cleanflametrap
Board Member
 
cleanflametrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: near baltimore
Default

Rarely do I guess, when diagnostics are available, but somehow I wouldn't be surprised if when you visually inspect the CPS you find a rodent has been at work on its wire. If not the flaky ignition switch.
__________________
-Art
cleanflametrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 06:02 PM   #12
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default

Another "update". Went out today and topped off the tank with fresh gas, only took about 2 gallons. Battery has been on charger overnight. Used my buddy's Noid Light on the #2 injector while at the same time put an inline plug light on the #2 plug. Turned the key to the run position and used the firewall starter test fitting to activate the starter. As soon as the engine starts to turn you get one flash at the sparkplug then nothing as long as it is cranking until you pull your test wire off the + battery terminal where it will flash maybe twice while the engine diesels backward 2-3 times. The Noid light on the injector fitting will flash the whole time you are cranking with the starter.

I was worried also about some critters chewing on the wires and I felt them from the sensor to the plug and they felt fine. tried to wiggle the fitting but its bolted in firm. Disconnected the CPS plug, checked it and reconnected it.

Went to the JY during lunch and pulled the power module off a '93 that I've already cannibalized. Put that on and same events happen. Could be two bad modules possibly.
At a loss as to how it can run and start fine, sits two weeks, hard starts then idles for 15 min. Now wont start at all. Plugs seem to fire only when the engine first turns over then again when the starter stops turning the engine. And that weird run on/dieseling after you stop using the starter.
Many thanks to everybody who has taken the time to reply so far.
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 06:22 PM   #13
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

That behavior definitely sounds like a bad crank position sensor. Regardless of the fact it was new three years ago. The fact you are getting an injector noid flash every time says that the ignition system is being triggered, therefore, you should have spark. It is also possible you have a bad coil, however, that is way less likely.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 07:18 PM   #14
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default

Well went ahead and ordered a new CPS from FCP. Sort of hate to start throwing money at the car to try and fix the problem but if this doesn't work I'll try a new ignition switch and then if that doesn't work....... buy an E30?
Seriously, a village idiot question. How do apparently pulsing injectors, non firing spark plugs, or firing at the wrong time and what might be a crappy CPS all tie in together?
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 07:42 PM   #15
2manyturbos
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Monroe, OR USA
Default

Without a spark signal going back to the fuel computer the injectors will not fire. That means your crank position sensor is sending a signal to the computer, however, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get good spark at the spark plugs. I took a 940 to the car wash last night and made the mistake of washing it before checking the crank position sensor. It had split open insulation in the car fired a couple times so I try to start it then refused to start. Pulling the wire off of the distributor cap that came from the coil I could see the car had spark. I could also smell fuel from the injectors coming out the exhaust. It would not even fire on ether. Luckily, I had all my tools with me and a new crank sensor in my box Volvo parts. It took me 10 minutes to remove the cap and put in that new crank sensor. The car fired right up at soon as it cleared out the flooded state.
2manyturbos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2020, 08:04 PM   #16
cleanflametrap
Board Member
 
cleanflametrap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: near baltimore
Default

OK, you disproved my guess about the mouse on the CPS wire. Now my guess is there's a bit of invisible oxide and resulting high resistance in the connectors near the coil preventing full battery voltage from reaching coil terminal 15 under load. There's a bullet connector as well as the fastons at the coil itself. Do what Bob suggests before ordering any more parts. Check while cranking too. Best to probe the brass screw post of the coil primary terminal so you don't disturb any wire connectors into magically working before you have the culprit verified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobxyz View Post
Try checking the voltage on the coil with key on (check between battery - post and the coil blue wire). Should have battery voltage. You can also check the same circuit on fuses 11,12,13. If you don't have voltage, try wiggling the key. If you get voltage, don't move the key but try starting with the engine compartment starter wire or diagnostic starter terminal.

Last edited by cleanflametrap; 03-09-2020 at 08:12 PM.. Reason: Add photo of connector
cleanflametrap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2020, 11:44 AM   #17
N97746
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Northeast PA.
Default

Well problem seems to be solved. Have to admit to being a dumb a** and not doing all the basic steps first.
Went out today and proceeded to check out voltage, resistance etc. on the coil as recommended here and on a pretty good diagnostic plan I found online. Everything checked out OK. One final test was to pull the HT lead off the distributor and while cranking the engine check the spark. I did this not expecting to see much as I knew the plugs were not sparking.
See where this is going?
Lo and behold!! Looked like a machine gun firing spark out the end terminal of the HT lead. So spark was dying at the dizzy. Cap "looked" good but replaced it with a new one. Reattached everything and it fired right up and after a couple seconds idled smooth and easily restarted.
Moral of the story, have a plan, start with the basics and don't skip any steps.
Again, thanks to all who chimed in to help.
N97746 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2020, 04:08 PM   #18
iHateVolvoPeople
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Midwest
Default

If an old EFI Volvo doesn't start, in my experience, it's always:
•Secondary ignition related like we have here
•Bad/iffy crank sensor
•Bad ecu if early lh2.4
•Bad fuel pump relay
•Bad RSR if a 7/9 series

Amongst a few other things. Glad you figured it out.
__________________
Feedback Thread
White liberals are the scum of the earth.
iHateVolvoPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:15 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.