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-   -   MSD 6A + LH 2.2 Help Needed. (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=354182)

maxitoman007 03-27-2020 12:40 AM

MSD 6A + LH 2.2 Help Needed.
 
Hello. So I’m trying to install my MSD 6A on my LH 2.2 1987 740 turbo. I can get the car started using the 6A but it stutters to start and idles rough. Let me explain.

It is worth noting that I am still using the stock coil, distributor and spark plug wires.

I first installed the MSD exactly as the instructions state. Car cranked but didn’t start.

Big red —> battery +
Big black —> battery -
Small red —> original coil + (blue wire)
Small white —> original coil - (red+white wire)
Black + orange —> coil - and + respectively
Grey (MSD rpm signal) —> not connected to anything

I then installed the MSD using a dummy coil for rpm signal. Car was hesitant to start but started and idled rough (almost seemed like a misfire).

Only difference in wiring:

Small red —> dummy coil + —> original coil + (blue wire)
Small white —> dummy coil - —> original coil - (red + white wire)

When I return the wiring to original the car starts and runs normal.

I’m guessing the dummy coil and therefore rpm signal is necessary for proper spark as the original rpm signal wire (original coil - (red+white)) runs through the powerstage. This would explain why the car didn’t start at all with no dummy coil.

Any ideas on how to smooth things out? Do I need to purchase the proper tach adapter? Could it just be a bad dummy coil? worn distributor/plug wires that can’t handle the now stronger spark?

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

maxitoman007 03-27-2020 06:49 PM

Update: called MSD and they concluded that the MSD 6a and 6al cannot be used on cars with a Hall effect sensor (ie lh 2.2 cars). They said the only compatible box would be a 6al-2...

Has anybody got this running on an lh 2.2 car?

Tried getting spark again using the dummy coil but no dice.

benflynn 03-27-2020 08:20 PM

Just put a big coil in it, blaster ss works with the stock 124 or 139 module

maxitoman007 03-27-2020 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benflynn (Post 6062758)
Just put a big coil in it, blaster ss works with the stock 124 or 139 module

Try using a blaster ss with the MSD? Or use a blaster ss instead of the stock coil with the stock setup for a little more power?

benflynn 03-27-2020 09:17 PM

With the stock ign. It will get it done. Sweidfiend ran a msd 6a back in the day. I think with lh before he went kjet then msns. If I recall he had to run a tach output adapter to get it to work

maxitoman007 03-27-2020 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benflynn (Post 6062791)
With the stock ign. It will get it done. Sweidfiend ran a msd 6a back in the day. I think with lh before he went kjet then msns. If I recall he had to run a tach output adapter to get it to work

Noted, thanks.

maxitoman007 03-28-2020 11:27 PM

Update: tested the MSD unit for spark using the procedure specified on their website and found that the unit I received may be faulty. Going to contact MSD as soon as possible to try figure out warranty/replacement.

freevolvos 03-29-2020 07:01 AM

Seems like everyone one of those msd boxes has to be sent in to get fixed. However where did you get it? As there is a ton of fake Chinese copies that look like the real thing, however all the fakes have the same serial number I think

maxitoman007 03-29-2020 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freevolvos (Post 6063356)
Seems like everyone one of those msd boxes has to be sent in to get fixed. However where did you get it? As there is a ton of fake Chinese copies that look like the real thing, however all the fakes have the same serial number I think

Got this one off amazon. Listing and packaging seemed pretty legit. Don't think amazon would sell a knock-off.

dbarton 03-29-2020 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxitoman007 (Post 6063464)
Don't think amazon would sell a knock-off.

Hahahahaha.

benflynn 03-29-2020 09:01 PM

Black 242 in ur sig is amazing

mikep 03-29-2020 11:19 PM

Dave’s amazing.

Harry Tuttle 03-29-2020 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikep (Post 6063590)
Dave’s amazing.

If you think that car is sharp, spend a couple hours burrowing into his websites and get your mind blown.

maxitoman007 03-30-2020 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbarton (Post 6063522)
Hahahahaha.

Am I wrong..?

dbarton 03-30-2020 08:23 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxitoman007 (Post 6063642)
Am I wrong..?

I know everyone likes a good deal. Cheaper stuff sells. Most people don't really care much if it's a fake product until something goes wrong.

As far as I'm concerned, if you find something on Amazon that is CHEAPER than other places and you cannot absolutely verify the seller is 100% legit, then the item is suspect.

A couple years ago I built a new PC. Spent a lot of money building one with high end gaming bits and 32gb of RAM for dual monitors and lots of stuff. I do a fair amount of design work and often had a lot of stuff running all at once.

Since my old (11 year old) PC had Win7 I decided I would move up to Win10. I buy a LOT on Amazon and it was the first place I checked. MS wanted $199. It was on Amazon for just over $100.

Then I began seriously going over product reviews. There were numerous sellers on Amazon and all of them claimed to be "MICROSOFT." Every one of them had reviewes from buyers who got some generic DVD, often with a product code that was invalid or meant for a different version. And it was obvious that Amazon was not policing their site. The bad reviews would go back many months. Sometimes a year.

Do some research. This article has since come out: https://www.howtogeek.com/fyi/beware...0-from-amazon/

So you would think by now Amazon would be cleaning this crap up. NOPE. Check for yourself. Here's one from right now. Check the first two reviews

There are literally thousands or hundreds of thousands of counterfeit products on Amazon.

dbarton 03-30-2020 08:36 AM

A few years ago I was looking at fuel pumps.

Amazon had great prices on things like Bosch 044 and Walbro 255 pumps and others. After checking reviews it was obvious something was up. People were complaining that pumps were failing left and right, many after being installed only a month or two.

Turned out all of them were counterfeits.
https://www.driven2automotive.com/bl...44-fuel-pumps/

How about counterfeit spark plugs? Counterfeiters are getting much better!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr9J3eQk-kE
Most people would never know the difference until they failed.

EVERYTHING ON AMAZON IS SUSPECT UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE.
Dave

gsellstr 03-30-2020 09:57 AM

Just getting back on here, went offline for the weekend.

A faulty MSD does sound plausible. My experiences with them were good, though I did end up finding the MSD was actually causing issues on my Dodge, and it changed the power delivery on my wagon so I opted to not continue using it once I noted that. What I thought was a combo of the converter flashing and turbo spooling ended up being the 6A switching from multi to single spark, and power picked up when it did transition. Kinda funky to say the least. I've swapped back to just the blasterSS coil, dropped the gap to .024", flipped to some BP7ES's and good wires, and it seems to be pretty happy still. I will look for a different CDI at some point since that extra punch does allow for a wider gap which I did note some improvements under higher boost levels in that aspect.

As for running the dummy coil, take a peek at the tach adapter thread I started years ago which had a much better option than using a dummy coil.

dbarton 03-30-2020 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freevolvos (Post 6063356)
Seems like everyone one of those msd boxes has to be sent in to get fixed. However where did you get it? As there is a ton of fake Chinese copies that look like the real thing, however all the fakes have the same serial number I think

This page offers details on counterfeit MSD 6AL boxes. It says nothing about other MSD boxes, so your 6A+ may be ok.
https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/244/

maxitoman007 03-30-2020 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbarton (Post 6063744)
This page offers details on counterfeit MSD 6AL boxes. It says nothing about other MSD boxes, so your 6A+ may be ok.
https://thecounterfeitreport.com/product/244/

Good to know. The price on amazon was similar to MSD and the reviews were almost entirely positive so I feel reasonably certain I have a genuine product. That being said, I will check some of the ways to tell a fake from that website.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsellstr (Post 6063693)
Just getting back on here, went offline for the weekend.

A faulty MSD does sound plausible. My experiences with them were good, though I did end up finding the MSD was actually causing issues on my Dodge, and it changed the power delivery on my wagon so I opted to not continue using it once I noted that. What I thought was a combo of the converter flashing and turbo spooling ended up being the 6A switching from multi to single spark, and power picked up when it did transition. Kinda funky to say the least. I've swapped back to just the blasterSS coil, dropped the gap to .024", flipped to some BP7ES's and good wires, and it seems to be pretty happy still. I will look for a different CDI at some point since that extra punch does allow for a wider gap which I did note some improvements under higher boost levels in that aspect.

As for running the dummy coil, take a peek at the tach adapter thread I started years ago which had a much better option than using a dummy coil.

I'm starting to think I may also stray away from the 6al. Especially considering I've heard rumors that if bought through amazon, MSD will not follow through with their warranty claims as amazon is not an authorized distributor. I'll give them a call today and will update with my findings.

bobxyz 03-30-2020 09:03 PM

Did you cut the two wire loops to configure it for 4 cylinder operation?

It should work fine with a hall distributor, EZK117 box, and the igniter (aka ignition module, or amplifier). You're connecting it to the original coil wires. The trigger signal (red/white) comes from the igniter, not the distributor hall wire.

The test procedure, i.e. disconnect the white wire and tap it to ground, should cause it to spark as the wire is removed from ground.

Get it running without the dummy coil first, then see if the tach works without the dummy coil (I'm not sure what happens if you connect both the MSD and a dummy coil across the same wires).

maxitoman007 04-01-2020 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobxyz (Post 6063907)
Did you cut the two wire loops to configure it for 4 cylinder operation?

It should work fine with a hall distributor, EZK117 box, and the igniter (aka ignition module, or amplifier). You're connecting it to the original coil wires. The trigger signal (red/white) comes from the igniter, not the distributor hall wire.

The test procedure, i.e. disconnect the white wire and tap it to ground, should cause it to spark as the wire is removed from ground.

Get it running without the dummy coil first, then see if the tach works without the dummy coil (I'm not sure what happens if you connect both the MSD and a dummy coil across the same wires).

I did cut the wires. Performed the spark test you outlined as I found it on MSD's website and no spark occurred. red light on the box flashed like it was getting the signal but no spark.

Canadan 04-04-2020 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbarton (Post 6063671)
I know everyone likes a good deal. Cheaper stuff sells. Most people don't really care much if it's a fake product until something goes wrong.

As far as I'm concerned, if you find something on Amazon that is CHEAPER than other places and you cannot absolutely verify the seller is 100% legit, then the item is suspect.

A couple years ago I built a new PC. Spent a lot of money building one with high end gaming bits and 32gb of RAM for dual monitors and lots of stuff. I do a fair amount of design work and often had a lot of stuff running all at once.

Since my old (11 year old) PC had Win7 I decided I would move up to Win10. I buy a LOT on Amazon and it was the first place I checked. MS wanted $199. It was on Amazon for just over $100.

Then I began seriously going over product reviews. There were numerous sellers on Amazon and all of them claimed to be "MICROSOFT." Every one of them had reviewes from buyers who got some generic DVD, often with a product code that was invalid or meant for a different version. And it was obvious that Amazon was not policing their site. The bad reviews would go back many months. Sometimes a year.

Do some research. This article has since come out: https://www.howtogeek.com/fyi/beware...0-from-amazon/

So you would think by now Amazon would be cleaning this crap up. NOPE. Check for yourself. Here's one from right now. Check the first two reviews

There are literally thousands or hundreds of thousands of counterfeit products on Amazon.



Wait, you bought windows 10? It's still free. https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-...ws-10-upgrade/

dbarton 04-05-2020 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canadan (Post 6065861)
Wait, you bought windows 10? It's still free. https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-...ws-10-upgrade/

I was absolutely not going to load Win7 in my new PC and then pray for a smooth upgrade.
Dave

maxitoman007 04-08-2020 07:38 PM

Here's an update:

I finally got around to contacting MSD with regards to the failed spark test. They started a warranty claim for me and provided an address to send the box to. There seems to have been no issues with regards to them following the warranty for a box purchased through Amazon Canada. They didn't mention needing to send in proof of purchase or anything of the likes for that matter.

I plan on sending in the box with the harness for inspection/repair. They informed me I'd have to pay the shipping to send it to them, but that they'd cover the return shipping. I'm overall pleased with the customer service I received.

I will update when I have more details on the replacement/repair.

maxitoman007 12-15-2020 07:11 PM

Another update:

Got the box back from MSD and they confirmed it worked properly on their test bench. Tried it once again only to find the same result.


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