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-   -   Dyno results----2nd gear?!? (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=100998)

dgseel 05-20-2007 09:59 AM

Dyno results----2nd gear?!?
 
First, It was awesome to meet so many of you in person at the Carlisle show. I'm really glad I went. I have a couple hours of video of some of the coolest stuff I can share eventually.

Well, I put my brick on the dyno at the Carlisle Import show. It was (is again today) a really cool show. Lots of cool Volvos. One highlight was Vovette on the dyno. I'll let Dug post about that though (thanks for the beers man).

I had so much trouble with the automatic tran in my car on the dyno. First, I pulled the kickdown cable and clamped it with vice grips as instructed on the forum. The dyno operator then tried for like 15 minutes to get it to shift out of 2nd gear. It was crazy. He would go up to like 6000 rpms and it would not shift to third. If it did for a sec, it downshifted to second as soon as he let off to sample it. I eventually had to climb up on the dyno (mobile one) and hook my tv cable back up. Then, I told him to drive 75 mph, let the rpm drop, then floor it, hoping it would not go to 2nd. Guess what. It did, again, and again, and again.

So, I got 2 crappy runs w/ it downshifting, but then he just put it in second and did a run. Here are the results. He said he corrected it fairly well, but I don't think I reached 20 psi in second b/c there wasn't enough load on the engine. Oh well. I was disappointed. Here are the #'s:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p.../volvodyno.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...ynonumbers.jpg

What do you think about all that? I guess I did learn that I am rich enough!

Thanks,

Dave Seel

John V, outside agitator 05-20-2007 11:47 AM

What do you have an Automatic in a turbo car for?
 
Did you have polio and your legs are withered twigs?

Get the auto-slusho-tragic sheet outta there.:grrr:

Then when you select a gear miraculously it stays there!!!!!:-P :-P :-P :-P

benflynn 05-20-2007 11:49 AM

looks good, i bet it will pull on a rustang huh

dgseel 05-20-2007 12:45 PM

Quote:

Today 11:47 AM
John V, outside agitator Did you have polio and your legs are withered twigs?

Get the auto-slusho-tragic sheet outta there.

Then when you select a gear miraculously it stays there!!!!!

HA HA... I'm sure it would be much more fun as a manual. That may be a good first project for when my garage finally done.

Dave

dgseel 05-20-2007 12:48 PM

Oh yea, I did pull on a newer Camero once. Also, a 2.0 T Audio on the way home from Carlisle last night. I rarely see any racing action in this car. No one looks at a station wagon and thinks, I'm gonna race that car. Much more luck in my Corvette w/ that.

MrBill 05-20-2007 06:57 PM

I was there for the dyno, bummer bout it kicking down so much. you need to get a stick in there asap
Quote:

First, It was awesome to meet so many of you in person at the Carlisle show. I'm really glad I went.
Agreed, I had a great time meeting everyone also. Although I'm sure I wont be remembered till I go really fast *cry*

L8 APEKS 05-20-2007 09:47 PM

What's the going rate on manual swaps these days, and how much power can they put up with? I'm kinda thinking about this lately. lol.

Nice dyno, BTW.

PS...what do you guys think this would have corrected to if he ran it in 3rd? Is there any way to tell?

dirtbike 05-21-2007 06:23 AM

I thought it looked a little on the lean side at peak torque, based on the dyno sheet.
Too bad it would go into 3rd, nice numbers non the less.

Laters
Nick

dgseel 05-21-2007 07:50 AM

Quote:

Yesterday 06:57 PM
MrBill I was there for the dyno, bummer bout it kicking down so much. you need to get a stick in there asap

Quote:
First, It was awesome to meet so many of you in person at the Carlisle show. I'm really glad I went.

Agreed, I had a great time meeting everyone also. Although I'm sure I wont be remembered till I go really fast *cry*
I remember meeting you anyway, but you should work on the fast thing! J/K.

Aren't stick conversions much more difficult in the 700/900 series?

Quote:

Today 06:23 AM
dirtbike I thought it looked a little on the lean side at peak torque, based on the dyno sheet.
Too bad it would go into 3rd, nice numbers non the less.

Laters
Nick
I didn't even notice that until you said it. It is 13:1 at the torque peak. Funny it gets really rich while the power is dropping off, but not at the torque peak. Well, there isn't much I can do about it w/out doing some real tuning. Right now I have 46 lb cfi injectors w/ a 2.5 bar fpr. I also have a 3" AMM tube. It would be interesting to do a run w/ the stock AMM and a little smaller injectors. I guess this is where lh kinda sucks. It is cool though that you can do all this stuff to it, and it still runs really well.

Quote:

Yesterday 09:47 PM
L8 APEKS What's the going rate on manual swaps these days, and how much power can they put up with? I'm kinda thinking about this lately. lol.

Nice dyno, BTW.

PS...what do you guys think this would have corrected to if he ran it in 3rd? Is there any way to tell?
Like I said, the dyno operator tried to correct for the 2nd gear pull already. The only thing that would maybe give us more info is if I do a street run in 2nd to see what boost it would have been making. Probably 16-17 psi. I bet it starts dropping in the higher rpms b/c of less load. Maybe that is why it starts getting so much richer.

Dave

dgseel 07-14-2007 09:36 AM

OK. I found some problems!!! This is good. The car is MUCH faster now.

First, I noticed antifreeze leaking out both sides of the head gasket........well, I was expecting that, so I tore it down in my new garage. First thing I notice is that my #1 spark plug was only threaded about 1/2 way down. The threads were so buggered up that I was getting the right torque value before the plug was even close to seated. So, I put a time-cert in there, good as new. Next, everything was DIRTY! I cleaned, polished and lapped the valves. I cleaned and polished the piston tops. I also ported the head pretty heavy. I even ground out and smoothed the oil passegeways on the exhaust side of the head (to speed flow of oil out of head to keep it cooler/cleaner). Then I carved in some of the Somender Sighns grooves and decked the head.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...l/P1010101.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...l/P1010102.jpg

My exhaust manifold was also cracked so badly you could see light through it. I had this welded and went crazy porting it even more than it was before. Now it is ready for a big turbo.

Well, it was night and day difference. The car really goes now. Can't wait to find out how fast it is in the 1/4.

Dave

edit: after testing in second gear in similair weather, the above dyno run was at approx 15 psi

Dauntless 07-14-2007 09:43 AM

What's up with your AFR's man?

dgseel 07-14-2007 10:05 AM

Quote:

Today 09:43 AM
Dauntless What's up with your AFR's man?
Good question! Too lean at the torque peak, then just stupid rich. I guess that is a good question for Fred, and a good reason to go Megasquirt. I just don't want to screw my car all up. That megamanual looks like I would always be screwing around with some setting somewhere. I am curious how much self adjusting it does for long roadtrips, changing seasons, etc.

It runs really good now, but it would probably be better w/ a custom tune.

Edit: Maybe AFR's go so rich b/c the car was used to 20 lbs boost, then it was only able to make 15 psi in second gear on that dyno. I should dyno again now.

Dave

isaac 07-14-2007 10:19 AM

I really want to see what your car dynos after you did all that work. That's just crazy.

But your dyno pull looks almost identical to mine from when I had my NA LH2.0 and isaacsquirt system on my +T.

tequila_gundam_no_chaser 07-14-2007 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John V, outside agitator (Post 1230287)
Did you have polio and your legs are withered twigs?

Get the auto-slusho-tragic sheet outta there.:grrr:

Then when you select a gear miraculously it stays there!!!!!:-P :-P :-P :-P

your just hating because his 3rd gear or case does not self-destruct when this magical thing called torque is applied to it :-P :-P


and it looks like somebody's kickdown cable isn't secure.

dgseel 07-14-2007 07:17 PM

black_swede--
Kick down cable not secure? Could you please explain? I had it in vice grips all the way tight, just before the click. It wouldn't even get up to third gear, even at really high RPMs. It just wanted to stay in first and sometimes second. We tried and tried. There were a good number of turbobrickers standing around too. I would have thought we could have got it.

He also tried going 70 mph then flooring it, but guess what......it went to second. Also, I have tightened the kickdown cable, and found that any tighter makes for some really wierd driving (i.e. bouncing off the rev limit, hard shifts in slow traffic, shifts delayed beyond torque curve, etc.).

Also, I could not climb up on the mobile dyno to fiddle w/ it during the sampling. I guess I could manuever the cable better during the run if the car was on a shop floor.

I figure I should just test at the drag strip from now on until I get a 5-speed.

Dave

MrBill 07-14-2007 08:40 PM

yeah that sure was a bummer to watch

HonestJhon 07-15-2007 01:27 AM

maybe you had it adjusted TOO tight? back it off just a tad...? cause i thought it was supposed to be JUST before kickdown, but as tight as possible so that the line pressure is high, but it wont want to kick down...


odd.

hockey930 07-15-2007 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaac (Post 1312351)
I really want to see what your car dynos after you did all that work. That's just crazy.

But your dyno pull looks almost identical to mine from when I had my NA LH2.0 and isaacsquirt system on my +T.

[rvolvor]redbrick managed to throw down 285 WHP on LH2.0 at the NC dyno day a while back[/rvolvor]

dgseel 07-15-2007 08:49 AM

Quote:

Today 01:27 AM
HonestJhon maybe you had it adjusted TOO tight? back it off just a tad...? cause i thought it was supposed to be JUST before kickdown, but as tight as possible so that the line pressure is high, but it wont want to kick down...


odd.
This really is what I did, but maybe just too close to the click? Oh well, I'm keeping the car for awhile now. Plenty of time for more testing. The good thing here is that my car feels MUCH faster now. It is like night and day since I did all the head and header stuff.

I wish I had time to go enter the bracket racing up the street today. Last run in the Volvo, I had a perfect reaction time because I am so relaxed in there. Too bad the car was stock and I got a 15.8 @ 88. I was just laughing the whole time. It was weird b/c I could not hear the car at all. I get nervous in my vette and loose a little focus. I have lost every possible way in that car, and even almost hit the wall, then my brother in his Volvo. I have also won a few times, but usually loose at the end of the finals (red light or break out). It would be fun to win the trophy (or some cash) in my Wagon! The trans may not like all those runs very much though.

frpe82 07-15-2007 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgseel (Post 1312341)
Good question! Too lean at the torque peak, then just stupid rich. I guess that is a good question for Fred.

That can be tuned with the help of injector and AMM sizing.

Also, the car should not go rich (12.5-ish) early in the powerband. It should be at ~14.7 up to the point where the turbo starts to spool, and then it should get gradually richer until it reaches 3500rpm where it should stay at ~12.5 until redline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgseel (Post 1312341)
Edit: Maybe AFR's go so rich b/c the car was used to 20 lbs boost, then it was only able to make 15 psi in second gear on that dyno. I should dyno again now.

That is probable, yes.

dgseel 07-16-2007 08:44 AM

Thanks Fredrik.

The car runs so good, it feels like it is right on the money. I am planning to go drag racing this Friday. I just have to find a baby sitter and decide which car to take.... I would like to see how fast the Volvo goes, but I am about to break into the 12.xx (hopefully) w/ my other car. I want to see the Volvo in the 13.xx's. I think this is very possible now.

Dave

AnthonyH 07-16-2007 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgseel (Post 1312341)
Good question! Too lean at the torque peak, then just stupid rich. I guess that is a good question for Fred, and a good reason to go Megasquirt. I just don't want to screw my car all up. That megamanual looks like I would always be screwing around with some setting somewhere. I am curious how much self adjusting it does for long roadtrips, changing seasons, etc.

Dave


I think MS is actually great... It was a pain the first time I set it up, but once you get used to it, it's easy... aspecially if you have a wideband. I think once you nail things down, you don't really need "constant" adjustments. The adjustment thing is more of a "USER" thing cause you have full control of things so you just want to keep adjusting and adjusting... vs. things you can't adjust so you have to leave them alone.


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